CARE Fertility Bulletin Board

nin100 · 06 Aug 2009

Just wondered if this had happened to anyone else. Sad

Unfortunately it has happened to us and we just can't believe it. It has never happened before with my own eggs and just seems ridiculously unfair.
My hopes were raised so high and I never in a million years thought I wouldn't get to E.T.
Any replies would be very greatfully received.
Alice x

fidyro · 11 Sep 2011

Oh Alice, I am so so sorry, I can't imagine how you must be feeling. I don't have any first hand experience but I have heard of cases when it happened, I think it was on fertilityfriends where a couple got 10 eggs through egg share and none fertilised.

Did you do ICSI?

Again, I am so sorry (hugs)

curly_girl · 11 Oct 2010

Alice, so sorry hun; what a kick in the teeth. Any indications as to why this has happened? You've been so supportive and have really appreciated your advice, help and viewpoint on other boards and just wish I could say something to make you feel better right now.
Are you able to give yourself some time off, do all the things you've not been doing in recent weeks and come back to this when you're feeling stronger?
Big hugs sweetie, try and stay strong; 2012 could still be your year Xxx

Lil Elvis · 01 Jul 2008

Alice,

I am so, so sorry. I hope that the clinic can shed some light as to whether DHs sperm was the problem or the eggs. I can only imagine how devastated you must both be feeling right now. Look after each other, take a deep breath, and only then book a review. I hope that you can get some answers so that you can decide what is best for you all.

I know that there are lots of us who will be thinking of you over the coming days and just wishing that we could take your hurt away.

Caroline xxx

nin100 · 06 Aug 2009

Thank you all so much ladies. Your kind words really do make a difference.
I'm just going to copy and paste what I wrote on my other thread, hope thats ok...

Well, we had our chat on the phone with the consultant and it was a mixed bag really. She said how sorry she was and that there wasn't really a clear reason for it happening. Apparently it happens in 5% of cases with ivf and less than 1% with icsi. She is doing a culture on the sperm to see if there was bacteria introduced in the lab which could have affected the outcome and we'll get this result in a few days. She also suggested that DH has the DFI test done on his sperm to test for fragmentation. Although there isn't a great deal that can be done if this result comes back high (he already takes all the vitamins/supplements CARE recommend to improve it) it will at least give us information, and hopefully cancel out one reason for what has happened. As I said before, this has never happened to us in 11 cycles (5ivf, 6icsi) so we are still in disbelief. Why??????????????

She also recommended that next time we do ICSI which makes complete sense. My husband is much more nervous about this as he believes the the 'natural selection' in IVF is better, especially after two of our ICSIs resulted in chromosomal problems.
So that is where we are...
Thank you again so much,
Alice x

Phoenix_ · 10 May 2011

Alice,

I just wanted to say how sorry I was to hear your story, what a traumatic experience, sending you (((Hugs))).

I just wanted to mention some extra procedures you could have alongside ICSI for sperm analysis if your DH is concerned about sperm selection. Another lady on the board L_ouise and her DH are having IMSI and PICSI on the next cycle, which are basically better sperm selection techinques. I'm not sure if these would be of interest to you but thought I would mention them just in case.

Just another quesiton - was your donor a proven donor? It may be that she too has an unknown issue with her eggs if not. Apologies if I upset anyone mentioning this but it could be another possibility.

Wishing you and your DH all the best for the future xx

nin100 · 06 Aug 2009

Thanks Phoenix
We are planning on getting DHs sperm tested for DNA fragmentation (DFI test) although in some ways I don't know if its necessary as this hasn't happened before. On previous cycles we've always had a good fertilisation rate. But at least it will give us more information. I will look into IMSI and PICSI too although not sure these would be available when using DE.
I also thought the same thing about the donors eggs. It was a first time altruistic donor and I was one of two recipients. I said to the consultant that I couldn't help wondering if the same thing had happened to the other recipient and she said ''all I can say is that is not a concern'' which I took to mean that the other recipient did get fertilisation.
I feel so low about all this, why did this have to happen?
Alice x

Maple · 15 Nov 2008

(((Alice))),

Luck is very selective ... it sometimes eludes some of us ... there just is no reason what-so-ever.

The trouble with DE is that all our hopes are raised because our success rates are raised from very low to 30-35% ... the first DE failure is the most painful. You have to allow yourself time for the wound to heal.

I would have thought that you could have IMSI and PICSI (subject to your clinic being able to carry out these procedures), even with a DE.

DNA Fragmentation will be useful in finding out the quality of the sperm, so I wouldn't discount the information. But if you've not had fertilisation problems before, I would suspect it was an egg issue.

Take care,
Maple
xxx

Phoenix_ · 10 May 2011

Alice,

I'd echo Maple - it may still be an egg quality issue. If the other couple did ICSI they may well have had fertilisation ie consultant meant no fertilisation was not a concern as ICSI bypasses this 99% of the time. Sometimes it can be an issue with the egg having a hardened shell so sperm can't break through, or not emitting the correct chemical markers to the sperm so the can't find it, or the shell may not fuse fast enough after 1 sperm enters allowing 2 or more sperm in (such eggs do not fertilise). ICSI bypasses this. Or it may well have been some contamination in your DH sample. Given you've had successful fertilisation with IVF in the past it seems more likely that it is one of those two issues.

The whole thing is so unfair, especially with donor eggs. I often think of my recipient getting a BFN - she must have been so devastated Sad

I hope you can get some answers soon and that this can be prevented from happening again. I doubt you can request a proven donor, but it may be an option?

Lots of hugs
xxx

nin100 · 06 Aug 2009

Great big hug back to you Maple. I don't often say this but YOU ROCK!
Phoenix thank you so much for your support and info too.
I love this BB.
Alice xxx

Maple · 15 Nov 2008

Alice,

It's the first time that someone has said that to me!!! Thanks ... it sounds very groovy! Very Happy

On my stalking travels, I found out that there is no waiting list for DE at your clinic ... how blooming marvellous (in fact it's unheard of in the UK)!!! I am so pleased for you ... you have chosen the right clinic! So, after your holiday in April, when your wound has healed and your PMA has been restored, you will be ready to cycle again!

It will give my fingers and toes a chance to rest, before they will need to be tightly crossed again for you!

Take care,
Maple
xxx

nin100 · 06 Aug 2009

Great big hugs to you Maple.
just want you to know how much I think about you and am rooting for you.
Alice xxx

Maple · 15 Nov 2008

Awwwh thanks Alice.

Be kind to yourself and make sure you have a lovely holiday.

Love,
Maple
xxx

3wishes · 14 Aug 2011

Hi Alice

so sorry to hear your news and just felt that I had to reply and tell you my story.

I had 2 cycles of IVF with ICSI using my own eggs. I didn't get pregnant but it was probably an egg quality issue because of my age, however fertilisation rates were reasonable.

I then transferred to CARE and joined the waiting list for DE. As Maple said, you have high hopes because the success rate for me went from about 5% to nearly 40% so you convince yourself it is going to work first time with DE. We had plenty of eggs donated yet only 1 fertilised (and that was using ICSI). I was convinced that there was something more serious wrong with DPs sperm other than low sperm count and low motility. I was all geared up to pay for DNA fragmentation etc but the Consultant wasn't convinced there was a problem and said there wasn't any point paying out for the tests. DP was already taking vitamins including Zinc, but it was recommended that he tried Menevit which is only available from Australia and New Zealand. So we did.

In August 2011 we started a new cyle using DE. There were less eggs this time but the fertilisation rate was much better (and so was DPs sperm). I am proud to say that I am now 6 months pregnant. Its so hard when you get told its just bad luck but sometimes it just is. Good Luck with your next cycle and you will get there in the end

3w xxx

curly_girl · 11 Oct 2010

Hi Alice,
Just checking to see how you're holding up lovely? I hope you're in an ok place?
I'm still ages away from treatment but still here should you need to talk.
Fran xx

nin100 · 06 Aug 2009

Three wishes, thank you so much for your post. You have made me feel so much more hopeful about the future. Funnily enough our consultant mentioned Menevit to us too, but we read up on it ages ago when we first started at CARE and DH has been taken all the things that are in it as separate supplements for the past couple of years. It had a dramatic improvement on his sperm too so I definitly think it makes a difference. He is still on it now, so hopefully things will turn out better next time. Congratulations on your pregnancy and thank you so much for cheering me up!
Hello lovely Fran! Its so sweet of you to pop in and say hello. Hey, if you'd like to email me my address is in my profile. That way we can talk more about dates and details that we're not allowed to say on here! You never know, we might even end up cycling together. How are you bearing up anyway? Hope the waiting isn't driving you too crazy and that time flies by for you. Also hope that the work situation isn't too distressing for you at the moment.
Right, I'm off to bed.
Thanks again lovely ladies,
Alice x

Footsteps2 · 22 Sep 2011

Hi Alice,

I am so sorry to read about your news, but wanted to tell you my experience of zero fertilization.

DH and I had our 1st OE cycle in October and got 5 eggs all mature (not bad for a mature lady)and due to DH having chemo for testicular cancer, he has low count etc.. we had ICSI. Needless to say we were completely devastated to receive the call from the embryologist telling us that we had zero fertilization. We felt that the rug had been pulled from underneath us to say the least. It didn't even enter our heads that it could happen with ICSI and not even get to ET. We never really found out why it happened, but basically due to my age, it was suggested to go to DE. At the moment, we are in mid cycle of our first DE cycle (ICSI again) abroad and our ongoing fear since our last cycle, is that zero fertilization will happen to us again! I am trying to be as positive as possible for this cycle, but we feel as it is only our 2nd cycle it is like a process of elimination for us at the moment. Hopefully we will get to ET this time round, but if not we have already said that we would have DH's sperm tested for DNA fragmentation. But what I wanted to say, is that I completely understand how devastated you both feel and really hope you get some answers soon as to why it happened. But in the meantime, give yourselves some time and I wish you all the best for the future x

nin100 · 06 Aug 2009

Thanks Footsteps and wishing you lots and lots of luck for your next cycle. I can really understand how worried you must be after what happened last time and I'm sure I'll be just the same. I really really hope you get some embryos to transfer this time
Alice xxx

3wishes · 14 Aug 2011

Hi Alice

your DH is so good taking all those supplements separately, that's some tablets! I struggled to get my DP to even take one and even then he used to moan every day saying it was like a horse pill. Men eh, they have no idea what us ladies have to go through! Wishing you every success for the future

3w xxx

nin100 · 06 Aug 2009

I know! When he complains about the garlic capsules I just give him a look now which says ''don't even go there!" - compared to what we women go through its not very much to ask is it!
Its actually only 3 different tablets - fertility plus for men, lycopene plus and the garlic capsules.
Wishing you all the best too.
Alice x

curly_girl · 11 Oct 2010

Hi Alice,
We've got a few more weeks to go, in your view would it be too late to step up the nagging to get DH to actually take some supplements.
Overall he's pretty fit and healthy with a good diet but every little helps doesn't it? Is it too late though?
Fran xc

Maple · 15 Nov 2008

Curly Girl,

It's never too late to start supplements ... as you know every little helps in this IVF malarchy!

Good Luck,
Maple
xxx

nin100 · 06 Aug 2009

I agree with the good lady Maple. Its always worth doing everything you can. Exciting to hear that you're starting in a few weeks, I may well be stalking you...
Alice xxx

curly_girl · 11 Oct 2010

Ok, thanks girlies. Back to nagging! Xx

Footsteps2 · 22 Sep 2011

My DH will take anything I give him to improve our chances Smile

He takes a multi vit and zinc daily and within a few months of taking them his count went from 1mil to 3mil Smile

his best count for years! So definitely worth taking supplements and never too late to try x