CARE Fertility Bulletin Board

Melski · 07 Jan 2011

Hi ladies, having just got a BFN following our FET and 2nd attempt, I'm now thinking about what to try during the break before our next attempt in the summer. I have been having accupuncture for the last year or so and my accupuncturist has been very keen to get me to try chinese herbs as they're stronger than what he can do with accupuncture. I know that chinese herbs are not advised by Care as the effects alongside western medicine are not known, but would be interested to hear from anyone who has had success with them after taking them between cycles.

On a separate note, if I decide against chinese herbs, I would want to make sure I was dosed up on all the wonder supplements I could be for the next couple of months. I have bought some Agnus Castus and wonder what else you lovely ladies recommend from experience. Q10, low dose asprin (I have antithrombin issues detected from L1 tests) etc?

Our next cycle will be fresh and self-funded, so don't to do anything that will have an adverse effect. Any suggestions greatly appreciated x

Monkey99 · 22 Jul 2011

Hi Melski, so sorry you got a bfn. I have been trying to take healthy supplements too in the hope of a BFP naturally. May try IVF one more time if we have to but not for a few months.

I take Femibion, vitamin b6 (50mg per day), coq10 (150 - 200 mg per day), Selenium, baby aspirin and L'Arginine (1500 mg per day). I also take Agnus Castus and Evening Primrose oil but I only take those two in the first two weeks of my cycle.

Good luck xx

Juleshid · 11 Dec 2007

Hi

Just wanted to emphasise that As care specifically say to avoid them I would steer well clear of Chinese herbs, i think they were found to actually counteract the drugs. Check with your clinic would be my advice.

J x

L_ouise · 08 Jun 2011

Oh no! I'm so sorry that you got a BFN Mel Sad

Really sad for you (hug)

I'd avoid the chinese herbs personally. I suggested that hubby took a supplement called Pycnogenol to CARE once and they tried delaying our cycle for 3 months for it to go out of his system - luckily he wasn't actually taking it, i was just after advice!

That supplement has loads of positive information and research about it but because they wasn't aware of it, they were set against it and they are very much the same with chinese herbs. I wouldn't risk it.

I'd get you both on Zita West supplements because they're supposed to be the best and seem to have had a good impact on my hubby. Aspirin is also a good idea. Femibion too. Not sure about vit B6 and angus castus because i find it hard to believe that anything that wouldn't be good for pregnancy could be good for fertility at all Smile

I would redirect focus to including your hubby into your fertility improvements too, if he isn't already. It's too easy to assume that a failed cycle falls at the feet of whoever has the known fertility issues xx

Monkey99 · 22 Jul 2011

Just wanted to add that as far as I'm aware b6 is safe even when pregnant, upto 100mg.

LottieH · 23 Mar 2009

Really sorry to about your BFN... just checked my 2003 herb book and it recommends Agnus Castus for low progesterone linked fertility issues as well as helping standardise AF cycles .... personally I would look for an accreditted herbalist or get one recommended and would definitely steer clear of chinese herbs myself as I know if I had a BFN after using them then I'd blame that and myself. I can receommed http://www.earth-energies.co.uk/jan_cassells.html as she practised at the same clinic I had my accupunture in 2009 and said she had several success with ladies with fertility issues and this was backed up by the thank you cards on their wall.
Both DH & I took Q10, cod liver oil, DH had Natural Health practise Male Fertility Vitamins (got a bottle left if you're interested) garlic oil & lycopene etc as recommended on Care leaflet while I took pregnancare or NHP female fertility vits. Also did Weight Watchers so ate a well balanced healthy diet with the right amount of protein & calcium, went to gym, swam & walked which I'm sure all helped.

Best of luck, Lx

Phoenix_ · 10 May 2011

Mel, really sorry to hear about your BFN ((hugs)). I hope you and your DH are doing as well as can be expected and are looking after each other.

In terms of vitamins, when we cycled I didn't take many, only mother to be multivitamins and fish oil. DH was on Well Man conception.

I didn't take any chinese herbs and would stay well clear, because as other ladies have said these can adversely impact fertility.

I was however following diet recommendations for my chinese fertility type from Emma Cannon's book 'The Baby Making Bible'. This talks about whether you have excess 'damp'/'heat' etc based on chinese medicical diagnosis. The book can help identify your type and your accupuncturist should also be able to help. It then recommends the foods you should avoid and eat to help regulate your system. The diet wasn't at all wacky just normal foods and to be honest a lot of it was common sense healthy eating advice, but tailored toward your chinese fertility type.

I'm not sure if it helped or not but it made me feel I was doing something, and that it couldn't have a detrimental impact! The book is only about Â£6 so not expensive.

Best of luck for your next fresh cycle xx

Melski · 07 Jan 2011

What a fab response in just a morning thanks ladies! Lots to think about from your replies.

Phoenix, my accupuncturist did identify excess damp and I'm suffering from persistent thrush like symptoms as a result. Despite frequent visits (and I'm confident in him), he hasn't been able to shift this hence he wanted to try chinese herbs as they are stronger than accupuncture. However, I have always resisted in the past due to the warnings from Care (thanks Juleshid too), but it's interesting to get different points of view.

Lottie, very kind of you checking your book! Also asked the lady in Holland & Barrett who checked her book and confirmed the same thing. What you said about blaming them for your BFN is the very reason I've never tried them before and probably never will. Might well see someone like you've recommended and get a plan of action together on what to take. Will definitely need to get DH back onto something. Let me know what you want for the Natural Health vits and I'll look them up in the meantime.

Louise, not sure about Zita West supplements. Am sure they're the best around but did look into them before our last cycle and they were extortionate. Will make sure I look into the Angus Castus before taking it and as above, will sort DH out shortly too.

Monkey, do you know what you take any of the supplements listed for specifically and why Agnus Castus and EPO in the first 2 weeks only? Presume you have to track ovulation to know when to stop then do you?

Since posting earlier, have been pondering a break from accupuncture (as I really dislike going) until we cycle again and am considering getting Bioenergetic Impedance Measurement (BIM) Testing or similar done. Does anyone have experience of this?

Thanks again all x

fingersandtoescrossed · 09 Apr 2011

Melski sorry to read about your bfn! Xxx

Monkey99 · 22 Jul 2011

Melski, evening primrose oil is to be taken until day 14 (ovulation) as it increases cervical mucus, improve the quality and effectiveness, it also helps reduce the narrowing of vessels and promotes blood flow. It's only to be taken to day 14 as it can cause uterine contractions.

Agnus Castus helps regulate ovulation. I have read mixed messages about wether to take all month or upto ovulation so I decided to just take pre ovulation to be safe. I take to day 12 as my cycle is pretty regular 28 /29 days.

Phoenix_ · 10 May 2011

Mel - on the accupuncture route I'm not sure it is for everyone.

I tried accupuncture whilst TTC naturally before treatment, but it didn't seem to help much. She couldn't find anything wrong with me anyway and the only effect was that it seemed to make my periods really light. I therefore gave up going and didn't have it through my treatment cycle. However we were unexplained and I'm now almost certain its a tubal scarring problem with me, so accupuncture can't help that anyway...I hated it too it felt really wierd so can see why you might want a break!

The damp diet is really horrible too - cut right down on sugars (incl carbs) as these can make the yeast infections, water retention etc worse. Unfortunately hard to stick to! xx

xx

Melski · 07 Jan 2011

Hi ladies, a couple more questions for Monkey & Lottieâ€¦

Monkey - where did you get L'Arginine (1500 mg per day) from? Iâ€™ve found it on Holland & Barrett but they say donâ€™t exceed 1 x 500mg per day.

Also, can you recall where you got the Q10 figure from, as having Googled it, there is very little info re RDA for this and the only articles I found seemed to mention 10-30mg, although I can get this upto 200mg from H&B.

Donâ€™t worry if you canâ€™t remember, Iâ€™ll ask in Holland & Barrett and theyâ€™ll get their little book out!

From the research Iâ€™ve done so far, DHâ€™s best options seem to be Wellman or Natural Health Practice, although these are expensive at Â£20 per month.

Lottie â€“ if you still have it, can you tell me what your leaflet recommends by way of Lycopene and Garlic oil for DH? As per above, Iâ€™m considering Natural Health Practice supplements for him and would definitely be interested in buying your bottle from you if you are happy to sell it?

Thanks for the ongoing help on this thread xxx

PS Phoenix, it's nice to talk to someone who knows the score with the accupuncture! It amazes me when people say they find it relaxing, as it flipping hurts! x

Mewantsmore · 14 Mar 2012

Hi mel
Sorry about your bfn. Its awfull!!!!
I took bee pollen, omega 3 and multi vits. My hubbie on the same plus zinc.
I had more eggsthan the other cycles, and although we. Still had icsi, my hubbies count was alot better.
Good luck.
Me xxxx

Monkey99 · 22 Jul 2011

Hi Melski ,

I just read on another thread you still have no af and are testing tomorrow........ OMG I have everything crossed for you.

COQ10 - i read on different fertility websites that in USA / Canada alot of cons recommend taking it and the dosage is between 600 mg and 800 mg per day !! No way can i afford that as its not cheap so I either buy 75mg and take two or buy 200mg and take one (depending on what offers H&B / Boots have on). I took it a good 4 months before my last cycle and its the only time I got close to blast ! (2 good qaulity blasts)

L'arginine - again on 'fertilethoughts' website it appears doctors in the states are recommending L'Arginine alongside IVF, it seems that 1600mg is recommended but one lady asked her RE as she could only find 500mg and her RE said thats ok just take x 3. I have the H&B ones (500mg) and take three. The guy in the shop said it says take one but you can take two if you want, but he was talking about in general of course and not for fertility.

Im hoping you arent gonna need these......... xx

LottieH · 23 Mar 2009

Hi there Melski,

Have you checked out Healthspan for supplements - only online or over phone but cheaper as are based in Jersey. And I didn't think acupuncture was supposed to hurt??? Mine never did once the needles were in anyway!

My leaflet recommends BioCare Lycopene 6mg (code 535); Solgar Garlic Oil 1g (code 1220); and NHP fertility Plus for Men (2 per day). I have found another 1/2 bottle of NHP Male Vits (BBF Jul 2012) and 1/2 a pot of Lycopene (BBF June 2012) although they expire in a couple of months, they'll still work for a few months after that date.

My email is charlottehoughton20@yahoo.co.uk - if you send me an email then we can discusss payment & posting you those vitamins, and I can scan and email you the Care leaflet if you don't mind the notes on it as it lists some other anti-oxidants.

I am checking emails around my 5 week old daughter so don't worry if I don't respond straight away.

Lx

Melski · 07 Jan 2011

Hi Monkey, BFN confirmed today as expected but thanks anyway! What dosage of CoQ10 and Lâ€™Argenine were recommended for DH on these websites?

Lottie, thanks for recommendation to Healthspan and Iâ€™ll have a look. However, I want to be able to go and speak to someone face to face really just to check these out once Iâ€™ve compiled a full list! My acupuncture didnâ€™t hurt once the needles were in, just when they are being manipulated. My previous therapist didnâ€™t manipulate them so no pain, but having seen a specialist who does manipulate them, I wonder how much good they were doing before. Iâ€™ll send you an email shortly re the Vitamins, thanks for that! x

Monkey99 · 22 Jul 2011

Gutted for you Melski xx

I didn't look for dh to be honest his sperm is excellent, I do give him (yes give him, it's like having a child) 150mg of coq10 and a zinc supplements.

Melski · 07 Jan 2011

Ok thanks Monkey, nearly there...!

Iâ€™m now looking at my vitamins in addition to Femibion and have the following questions for you:

What strength selenium do you take? Iâ€™ve read that 55-100mcg is recommended to minimize the risk of birth defects.

Have either of you thought about supplementing Vitamin C. Iâ€™ve read studies that show you should both have high amounts, circa 1000mg p/d and multi-vits offer substantially less than this. It particularly helps sperm not to clump together. I guess you haven't if DH's sperm has always looked good. My DH has never had any issues with count/motility etc, but I have read that good looking sperm can be affected chromosonally and have an effect on the sustainability of a pregnancy, so want to give him the best possible shot too!

Thanks again x

Monkey99 · 22 Jul 2011

Hi Melski,

Selenium, I'm taking 50 ug (it's not a u it's that funny symbol) they are from holland and Barrett and it says one a day.

I haven't looked into vitamin c I'm taking enough lol Wink

Good luck xc

Melski · 07 Jan 2011

Just wanted to say thanks for all the advice. A trip to H&B got us almost fully dosed up. Just got to get DH's multi-vits and Lycopene which I couldn't get in 6mg.

Lottie, I don't think I've heard back from you yet on my personal email. I know you said you might take a while to respond, but just wanted to check I've not missed you as I've been checking emails on my phone as laptop is down. Care sent me vitamin list, so no need to send me that, just let me know what you want for the spare vits x