CARE Fertility Bulletin Board

vip · 16 May 2007

Jules - good luck with your review tomorrow - I hope you get some answers and faith and hope to try again sometime. Sorry to read how you've been feeling, hugs. Hopefully you'll feel much better as these days go by too and after your review. x

Wendy - You're not going to need that straw Wink

AMR80 · 26 Dec 2008

Jules - Hope you get some answers tomorrow at your review.

Wendy - I am glad you got another straw but can you get a refund when you don't need it??

Milly - hope your dog is ok.

Anna

Juleshid · 11 Dec 2007

Turns out I am a crappy chicken and somehow my eggs have gone to shit. 3 of them didn't even survive the ICSI process. So there's every chance all the failed cycles have been because of me and DH at all. So the suggestion is to either try again cos crappy eggs could still work, or donor eggs.
But it's all irrelevant as apparently DH has decided we are done as it costs too much money and that's that. Currently I'm working out how much I can get from the life insurance as I'm rather peed off right now.

Oh yea turns out my dog has torn her cruciate ligament on her back leg, so thats Â£2,500 of surgery - thank god for pet insurance.

Hope everyone is ok, will come back later when I am feeling less homicidal.

nicster · 19 Aug 2010

Jules, big hugs Hun, sounds like you are having a really crappy time. I've been where you are a few times in terms of dp saying no more, it's just a knee jerk reaction, he'll come round when he's had time to think and the rawness of a failed cycle has passed. My advice is take some time out, I know it's hard but have some time as a couple, talk about anything other than Ivf, then when things have settled and your in a neutral environment slowly start to plant the seeds with him again. Usually works for me ! As for your eggs, there's some lovely ladies on the over 40's thread that could probably gve you more info x take care Hun x

Nicster x

MILLYCURLYLOCKS · 03 Apr 2008

hi all

Jules hope things seem better soon and your hubby changes his mind. hope you dog is better soon cant believe how much vets charge.

well my dogs has had all tests and hoping to get result tomorrow. poor thing has no energy but i am managing to get some food down him by feeding him by hand so feeling a bit more hopeful that hes starting to feel a little better.

hope everyone else is ok x

Chucy · 17 Apr 2008

Jules - sending you lots of (((HUGS))) am so sorry to hear this. I hope you and DH can find a way forward for you as a couple whatever that may be - LOL and thinking of you both Lucy XXX

AMR80 · 26 Dec 2008

Jules - really sorry to hear about your consultation and egg issue. Sad

Big hugs to you (((((((()))))))) Sorry to hear about your dog too.

Anna x

vip · 16 May 2007

Jules - so sorry about your bad news yesterday.

Oliver was a FET from 1st cycle (just turned 36) when we had all embies fert to grade 1s. I was 39 when we next cycled and the amount of fert embies was greatly reduced and each attempt showed a deterioration although we were still getting grade 1 to 2. Last 2 attempts only 1 fert embie. All these were with immune drugs (last 3 with intralipids too)

At our review our consultant said that these poor results were now down to my poor egg quality. Couldn't face trying again which may have resulted in no fert embies at all which made our decision to try donor eggs quite exciting. On my last cycle with d/e (6th since Oliver) we were lucky to get 6 embies all which went on to blasts! This transfer resulted in a bfp but mmc. What I am trying to say is that the use of donor eggs is giving us much more of a chance of another baby Very Happy

.

I wss offered a drug Melatonin to help improve egg quality ??

Got to go now, sorry to rush this. Hope you manage to talk to d/h and come to some agreement soon xxx

Juleshid · 11 Dec 2007

Thank you all

to be honest I don't really have a problem with donor eggs, I was quite happy to get on the list there and then, it's disappointing but if that's my only choice I don't mind any more. I want a child I don't really mind who's it is biologically. But dh won't even consider it, he's just decided he doesn't want to pay any more. What bugs me is he doesn't do the finances, he won't look at changing anything, making changes to save up money or anything he's just decided that's it.
I don't know what to do, I can't stay if that's his choice. I'm done, I'm tired of being so terribly unhappy

wendymw · 01 Feb 2008

Jules, so very sorry to hear how down you are. I can only imagine how rubbish it is to be told after so many attempts that it's an egg issue. I would certainly be complaining to the clinic that they've not picked this up on an earlier cycle.

It's early days yet with your DH, you never know, his reaction may just be a knee jerk one and he may come around in the end. I remember it took you a while to persuade him to go for DS, so you never know.

Sorry that your doggy is poorly as well, hope that she gets over the surgery quickly.

Big hugs. I know that nothing any of us can say can make it any better.

Wendy xx

vip · 16 May 2007

Jules - hang on in there .... I'm sure d/h will come round in time.

If it was me I think I'd put my/our names down on the list anyhow and pray that by the time we're at the top of the list he'll have changed his mind! This will buy you time and I'm sure you'll both feel ready if you decide to try with D/E. Not sure what the waiting list is now but I know when we were thinking about it the clinic said about 12 months but by the time we has our counselling 6 months on it was only 6 months. My d/h quite often said never again after failed treatments, but knowing him like I do - I backed off, didn't mention it a word about anything and a few months later he would always bring it up asking when we were trying again Very Happy

Sometimes it would be a matter of wks!

I truly hope d/h changes his mind....I'm sure deep down he wants this more than anything in the World....he's just hurting now ( I know, like you are too ) but men are funny and can't handle things like us women do. Remember, you had your review so soon after your m/c and it's bound to be very difficult thinking about your options and trying again when everything is still very raw.

Give yourself time, I'm sure you'll both feel different in a few weeks.

Love and hugs xx

karenmurray1970 · 24 Apr 2011

AWW Jules sorry to hear your news. My DH bluntly refuses to do IVF again due to the cost and I have been unable to budge him on this once his minds made up thats it.

I wish you all the best for the future and I hope you dog will be well again soon too.

Take time for your and your DH's emotions to heal IVF with a very emotional process and made more difficult by you m/c.

Sending you my best wishes

Karen

MILLYCURLYLOCKS · 03 Apr 2008

hi all

jules hope u are ok and pooch is doing ok x

im feeling sad today my poor pooch got his results from tests today and had bone cancer. he sadly passed away this afternoon after the vet started treating him Crying or Very sad

Juleshid · 11 Dec 2007

Oh Milly so sorry, bighugs

As for me, not a lot has changed, DH's mother has been here all week so we haven't had much chance to talk, and now she's gone he's on night shift. She's just been visiting all the kids as she had a week off and was bored!

I can't really complain to the clinic about them not picking it up, as it has only become apparent my eggs were rubbish since we changed to donor sperm, and even then they've deteriorated, we were getting grade 2 and more were fertilising in the first few cycles, frustratingly it doesn't seem to be linked to a particular protocol or drugs or anything.
I also found out that apparently my blood tests were completely negative - which I'd sort of realised as I'd been getting a negative on the tests.

We can't just go on the list either, have toay 450 for the privilege! Also currently the waiting list is only a couple of months as after all the media coverage there's been recently they've got lots of donors. They didn't say anything about what to do to improve egg quality, I guess if I said I wanted to go again with my own eggs they might mention it/ I could ask about it, seems quiteointless at the moment.

I am also kind of disappointed about my crappy eggs as my plan had always been to donate some once I'd had a baby, I was looking forward to giving something back Sad

The other thig it raised was perhaps we could try DHs sperm again as that was possibly not the problem, but even if money wasn't an issue he says he doesn't want to reopen that, which is a pity he already feels so out of it, it would be nice if he could actually be part of it. We are both just thinking so differently on it at the moment I just don't see how we can ever get anywhere, will have to wait till this set of night shifts is over I guess. I also don't think he'll change his mind unless we suddenly win the lottery or find someone who wants to give us their spare embryos - he did perk up when the consultant mentioned how much cheaper that was, if only there wasn't an indefinite waiting time on embryo adoption ^^
I just feel because there was actually something different this time, even if I only had a positive for 3 days, it was an "improvement" not to mention it isn't "just numbers" we have a specific reason it ultimately failed, I feel like in a bizarre way we got somewhere, just a shame it costs Â£6000 to make each tiny discovery Sad

Think I've waffled o. Enough for one day.

Take care all

Once again a big hug to you milly

J x

nicster · 19 Aug 2010

Hi jules, sorry your still feeling so low, it's such an awful time isnt it. Have u thought about treatment abroad ? One of the ladies (Stella star) who I have cycled with before has just been through embryo adoption in the chech republic and got her first bfp after three failed cycles with own egg and sperm, don't think they have a huge waiting list and the cost is cheaper than hear x just a thought x

Nicster x

Juleshid · 11 Dec 2007

Thank you, I have been thinking about abroad, just dont know how much hassle it is. I guess it cant be too much as so many people do it. I will go have a stalk and find out which clinic it is...

Maple · 15 Nov 2008

Apologies for barging in, ladies. (I have been stalking Nicster!)

Jules - I have read a couple of your posts ... I really feel for you in your search for answers and mission for getting a baby.

I don't know about your treatment details/history (besides what's on your signature), but I am sorry that it has been a long and tortuous one.

As I don't know the details of your treatments ... if you have been getting enough eggs/embryos on each cycle, have you thought about having aCGH testing to see how chromosomally normal they are. Have you had immune treatment?

Do give yourself time to recover from your last BFN. You need time to close-out/give up on your own eggs.

A couple of things to bear in mind, if you do decide on the DE route (be it donor eggs or donor embryos), are you and your DH happy with the anonymity abroad and the lower success rates of donor embryos compared to donor eggs. Naturally, a donor embryo cycle will be cheaper than a donor egg cycle.

If you are wondering if you should use your DH's sperm to have at least half the genetic connection, then if you go down the donor egg route, you may be able to have half the donor eggs fertilised by donor sperm and the other half by your DH's sperm. Then on transfer day, transfer the best embryos.

Treatment abroad is a lot more hassle ... there is no denying there, but there is hardly any waiting list for donor egg/embryos. Though, I have heard that the waiting lists in the UK are reducing due to the recent publicity raised in the media.

Lots of foreign clinics do egg/embryo donation ... homing into one will mainly be based on cost, recommendations from ladies who have had good experience from the clinic, and the logistics of you and your DH being able to get to the clinic for treatment (but generally, only one visit will be required by you and your DH for ET and semen specimen at EC). A lot of things can be done in the UK i.e. the blood tests and monitoring scans.

All the best,
Maple
xxx

Juleshid · 11 Dec 2007

Hi Maple

Thank you for barging in Smile

Basically we thought we were here because DH has azoospermia, we were referred in 2007 after TTC since we got married in 2003. I am now 29. DH has a successful SSR and we started trying with ICSI straight away because of his condition.
Despite getting between 8 and 12 eggs we have always had quite a poor fertilisation rate, I don't think I've ever made it to ET day with more than 3 or 4 embryos, and the remaining ones have never been good enough to freeze.The consultants put this down to DHs sperm - assuming that because he had a problem in the first place it was affecting their performance.
At no point had there been the same egg quality issues that there seem to have been this time - we weren't losing any to the actual process or anything like that.
After our 3rd (? I think) attempt I had the Level 1 tests done, which came back clear, but we didn't have the level 2s, the reason being that DH was never convinced about them as one of the consultants mentioned that they aren't accepted everywhere as scientifically proven, which put him off.
So after number 4 failed we sat down and talked, and eventually we agreed to try Donor sperm, the clinic suggested that as I am "fine" to try IUI, which based on cost we decided was worth a shot before more treatment.
As that didnt work we decided to go back to IVF and again because everyone assumed I had no problems we had IVF rather than ICSI. After that failed to even fertilise, the consultant was still telling us that my eggs looked ok, there were no spots, or any other things that stood out, so we decided to throw everything at the next attempt and had the Level 2 tests done (and the cost had almost halved since the first time they were brought up). The Level 2s showed slightly raised killer cells, but again only at the bottom range of abnormal. I'm attributing the immune drugs to actually getting the tiniest bit further and actually getting a BFP however brief (you know with all my medical/scientific knowledge!)

So in short we don't get enough eggs for testing Sad

Part of getting DH to try with donor sperm was that he doesnt want anyone to know about it, even the child, so I guess the anonymity part isnt really an issue.

As for the success rates I don't really have a lot of choice, possibly after we talk more and tiime has passed Dh might be more open to it, but it is now purely cost based, looking up Reprofit in the Czech Republic and the costs there are the only way I've been able to get him to even think about it. We have family in Germany so I'm going to have a look at what I can find there, but theres no hurry as we have to do some saving first anyway.
If money was not a problem I would like to try with an SSR from him and DE, but like I said he doesnt want to go back to that, he says he's reconciled that he's not going to having any children that are biologically his and doesn't want to go back, which I do understand, I just think it's so sad that this is potentially something he could have but he is afraid to do, I know I will never persuade him otherwise, and I don't want to push it in case he has to go through it all again. He already feels so out of each cycle and then has to deal with the mess at the end, I do try and let him help with injections but no matter how many times I tell him not to jab it into my leg like they do on the TV when they are emergency jabbing adrenaline into peoples hearts and stuff he still manages to give me bruises and lumps so I can't have him do it.

We have to save up again now, also I don't have much holiday left from work so I don't think we will be cycling again this year (unless its my turn on the lottery or some fictional old relative I have never heard of unexpectedly leaves me lots of money in their will) so will be having a break like it or not.

The consultant told us the waiting list for DE in Northampton is at 1-2 months at the moment because of the recent media coverage, but we can't afford to go again so soon.

As for me and my crappy eggs, honestly at this point after trying for so long, I really really don't mind (I want to write care, but thats not quite it) I am sad that a child I have won't be biologically mine, but I'm still hopefully going to give birth to it and raise it, so what if its not going to inherit my ginger hair and horrible history of heart disease that runs in my family - I am sad because theres no chance I will see a bit of my parents in the child (especially with my dad being gone) but if its the only way I can have a child then I just want to get on with it. I thought a lot about it when we were talking through using donor sperm and how I would feel about it then. DH is the most pragmatic person in the world and I think some of that may have rubbed off on me along the way. My new only choice is not to use my own eggs. So be it.

Thank you for stopping by, you are ever so knowledgeable about it all, I wish I could've taken you along to all my reviews, I always end up with no idea what I want to ask or what to ask as a result of the information I'm given.

J x

Maple · 15 Nov 2008

Hi Jules,

I assure you that consultants hate ladies like me who have a long list of questions during consultations/reviews and make them late for their next appointments!!!

The biggest plus for you is that you are still young, so the wait to potentially cycle next year won't be an issue ... I know it's no consolation as I do understand how desperate you are to get your baby after so many BFN's.

That time will give you breathing space to come to terms with using DE's, save up and do research into foreign clinics (if you decide to have treatment abroad). Besides the Czech clinics, there are quite a few good ones doing DE treatment ... if you go to the Fertility Friends BB you will find lots of ladies having treatments at the different foreign clinics. Another popular (cheapish) one is Serum, in Greece -

http://www.serum-ivf.com/treatment/embryoadoption/frozenembryo.html

It's good news that the waiting list at Care Northants is only 1-2 months.

I understand why your DH would not want to use his sperm ... once the decision has been made and DS has been used, it would feel like going backwards to start using his swimmers again.

I have moved onto DE for 4 years now (and still have had to suffer many failed cycles) ... the only thing that is important to me now is to have that live, healthy baby at the end of this awfully painful and soul-destroying journey. I still have thoughts of how to deal with issues resulting from a DE child ... but I will deal with them if/when they arise.

Don't beat yourself up about your eggs ... it's not certain that they have been at fault. Unfortunately, despite the big steps forwards in technology, IVF is not at that point of being able to determine what the problem is, without ladies having to go through lots of cycles trying different things ... and most of these ladies don't have the energy (emotionally and physically), money and time to keep on going.

I just wish that I can help you more ... it is a horrible place to be at. But remember, determination and persistence will pay off one way or another (whichever route you choose) ... you will be a mummy one day!

Take care,
Maple
xxx

nicster · 19 Aug 2010

Oh maple you are so lovely, don't think you realise just how much you help all us ladies x you will make such a lovely lovely mummy xx

N x

Maple · 15 Nov 2008

Awhhhh thanks for your kind words, Nicster ... I am humbled by them.

Love,
Maple
xxx

MILLYCURLYLOCKS · 03 Apr 2008

hi everyone

hi jules hope you are ok x

i have had my review with dr atkinson they are happy to go ahead on day 21 of next period for FET. he did say that they could sugest immune testing as this will be my 6th cycle but had a pregnancy within that but couldnt guarantee they could find anything and a cost of 2 and half grand so ive decided not to have the immune testing what ever that is. Im just hoping it works this time cant see me having another cycle. They only also want to put one embryo in i was hoping for 2. The good news is tho i have enough medication left over from previous treatments so should save there x

AMR80 · 26 Dec 2008

Apologies that I haven't been around. I woke up last Thurday/Friday with a painful ear so went to docs and got an outer ear infection. I am deaf in in one ear as well as feeling dizzy. i went back to docs on tues as my ear is still giving my grief. I am still deaf in one ear. I went back on Tuesday and it wasn't looking as red but I still can't hear but they reckon that will change.

Jules how you doing?

Milly really sorry to hear about your dog. Great news about your review.

Wendy how is the potty training going? I was meant to be starting this week but with my ear being painful decided to wait till it is better.

I got my scan date through for Wed 23rd May. I will be 12 weeks 5 days.

Anna x

wendymw · 01 Feb 2008

Hello ladies. Hope you're all well. Anna, hope the dizziness has stopped. Gosh not long until your 12 week scan. The time has flown.

Milly, I had exactly the same dilema when I had my review with Dr Shaker about the immune tests, except it was me that asked and Dr Shaker said that it probably wasn't worth it as I've had one successful pregnancy and like you, I wouldn't afford the cost of all the tests. As for one or two embryos, I guess that's entirely up to you. I only wanted 1 back on my last cycle and I think I will for this one too. My decision was made easier as there was one front runner out of the 4 I got, but I didn't get any frosties (I never have).

Lucy, are you going mad in the 2ww?!

Jules, how are you doing? Have you and your DH managed to have a proper conversation yet? It's a difficult one, but you've had fabulous advice from our lovely Maple (as always!). I know it doesn't feel like it as you've been trying for so long, but you do have age on your side, so you can afford to wait a year or so to save up for tx. I know I said it before, but as you managed to persuade your DH eventually to go with donor sperm, I'm sure you'll be able to work your magic on him for donor eggs.

Nicster, how are you doing? I suspect you're no nearer a decision. Sometimes there's just too much information to process to know what to do for the best.

VIP hope you're ok, I see you've got your holiday booked, it sounds lovely and a break will be just what you need before you start your FET.

Louise, how are you doing? I hope you're doing ok. Big hugs.

Katie, how are you doing now? Are you about 15 weeks now or more than that? Again, the time seems to have flown by.

As for me, AF arrived on time on Saturday (back to my 27 day cycle), so I rang Care on Monday. I have my pre-treatment appointment on 14th May (to sign the forms etc - lets see if they can get it right first time this time!). I should then be due to start D/R on 18th May. They're supposed to be sending me my protocol out beforehand so I can get the drugs ordered and delivered. It will cost more this time as I won't be getting any cheap menopur and they're adding gonal F into the mix. I've also got to use the other type of final drug (they basically can't get hold of pregnyl anymore) Ovitrelle(?). Anna, when you did that did you just inject it in the same way as Pregnyl? Do you need to keep it in the fridge like pregnyl? Dr Shaker said he'd give me a double dose of that.

So I've been on the pregnacare, the omega 3, coenzyme Q10, I've started trying to lose a bit of weight (not that much is happening as I'm lapsing quite a lot...) and I guess this time in 2 months I may have an idea of whether this last ditch attempt has worked or not.

Things aren't great with me at the moment. Work is frankly a nightmare - not busy, quite the opposite and despite all the work I did to get that deal closed in March, there have been lots of issues since that are apparently my fault (internal firm stuff, not with the clients) and I think the partners are looking at whether I still have a role in the team... Last thing I need when I'm about to embark on another cycle of IVF. Anyway, I'm just going to keep my head down and see what happens with this next cycle of IVF. if it doesn't work, I'm going to start looking for another job - a scary prospect after being here for 9 years.

So I reckon E/C will be approx w/c 18th June, so we'll just see.

Love to all
Wendy x

vip · 16 May 2007

Wendy - all go now, good luck to you on this cycle - really hope you're lucky Very Happy

Chucy - hello stranger! wondering how you are and where you're up to? I shall have everything crossed for good news from you very soon Very Happy

Much love to everybody xx