CARE Fertility Bulletin Board

Gemini73 · 14 Jan 2004

HelloThis is the first time I have been writing on this forum. I have been reading posts from this post during last two cycles of mine but have never posted anything. During my last cycle I had decided that I will post on this board when I get a positive to give positive news to all going through this stress. But unfortunately it was not positive. Sad

All this while reading posts here have always helped me a lot. and I really want to thank all of you for that.I will like to share my case history with all of you to get your views about what should be our next options. Please be patient to go through it.I am 30 years old. Have been trying for last 3 years to get pregnant and have not been successful yet. I am having irregular periods problem since I started having periods. After trying normal ways of getting pregnant, last June it was found out that my husband is having asopermia. We were very down when we learned this, but thankfully soon after learning this we were told that he does have sperm in testicules. Leaving us the option of going through ICSI. Not knowing much about this process we thought we will have a baby soon. We did our first ICSI in Sep 2002, which failed. Second one in Dec 2002. This resulted in chemical but was lost in a week's time after first positive. We had FET in March 2003, Fresh in July 2003 and last fresh in De 2003. No positive for all these. During my first attempt they retrieved 30 eggs, of which they got 4 grade-1 embryos. All were transferred for no luck. Day 3 transfer Second - 29 eggs , 14 fertilized. 6 grade-1 blasts, 2 "gorgeous looking transferred at blast (day 6) -- I had some problem of Hyper stimulation FET - 3 grade 1.5 blast transferred. No luck Fourth - 20 eggs(they say they controlled the number in order to save quality) , had fever day before the ER. Transferred 2 (grade 1, grade 1.5) on day 4. Fifth - 20 eggs, transferred 3 "good looking" grade 1, grade 1.5) on day 4. (early morula) All the transfers have been very normal.I am not sure if Chicago tests might be good option for me. My Dr. says they haven't found any scientific support for those tests. They say they don't know why I am not getting pregnant. They feel everything is normal.. I have few frozen and they were telling to keep trying with it. But I have started getting feeling that there is no point in trying same thing without any change. I have had enough emotional roller coasters and not sure if I can take any more of it.... I tried to read through Dr. Beer's website, but have not been able to understand most of the things. I am very depressed and don't know what to do next. sometime I think of giving it all up, but then that makes me all the more disturbed...Please share your views about what I should be doing next. Thanks once again !Gemini

za · 14 Oct 2003

Hi gemini, there are lot so of people on this forum who can understand what you are going thru. Which clinic are you with? I think it is worth having the chicago tests. Alos you say you had irregular periods- why is this? Alos (sorry for ignorance , my husband has low sperm count so i know it may be differnt to you) but can azospermia be changed at all (i mean does it fluctuate at all or is always 0?). the reaons why i ask is that I think a health clinic or a health regime can help as well in conjunction with ivf. what i mean is the marilyn glenville book/ regime or zita west of harley st london or dr zhai also of harley st london ( all expensive). acupunture is good and a lot of womena re reporting success after having it. currently this is what i am doing- sometime you get so bogged down especailly if youare yougn they jsut keep throwing more ivf at you (i am 29) and you hhave to take a step back. I definately think you should do the chicago tests and check for blood flow to the uterus. basically there can be natural killer cells and there product tumour necrosis factor which can prevent implanation. you may need steroids, blood thinners, intravenous immunoglobulin or anti rhematoid arthritis drugs. it is good to read suzy t's story as it gives everyone hope it is in the immunology forum around august 2003, i think Aich was the person who started the thread. all the best

Lincs Sarah · 23 Feb 2003

Hiya Gemini I am just about to start my 10th cycle (blocked tube)-singular!Ususally people are referred for the chicago tests after3-4 failed cycles, but due to the era when I had my first 7 cycles, the tests werent available. my last two cycles were with a different partner and were on egg share, when they failed, I finally decided to go for the tests and they all came back negative. I also had a doppler scan at pro-scan in nottingham, and the results came back 12/20 "those with a score of under 13 out of a possible 20 will not achieve pregnancy”“ A perfect score of 20 has been associated with conception 100% of the time, scores of 17-19 have been associated with conception 80% of the time, scores of 14-16 have a 60% chance while scores of 13 or less have resulted in no pregnancies.” (Michael Applebaum MD, JD, FCLM, Chicago)I had two weeks on viagra and my score went up to 19/20! so it could be something as simple as that!good luck Sarah xx

Kiki · 23 Sep 2002

Gemini Really just echoing what the other girls have said. I also started relatively young in this game at 31, am now 32 and have had 2 failed fresh attempts and a frozen which worked after having LIT (Lymphocite Immunisation Therapy) but unfortunaltey lost at 10 weeks.I would really recommend looking into further possibilities as to what the problem might be. There is a whole list of tests to have done on Dr Beer's website, I took this along to my GP and they were able to do most of them, some are more specialised such as the NK Assay and TH1-TH2 & don't think you can even get them done in this country but the more straight forward ones can be done here and for free! Be prepared to be fobbed off and belittled by Drs who think you are grabbing at straws but as we all know there have been a number of success stories and those to women who had had multiple failures/mc's. Might be worth you looking at Dr Beer's Yahoo site and they also have an immunology forum at <A HREF="http://www.ivfconnections.com" TARGET=_blank>www.ivfconnections.com</A> Educating yourself will really help you to deal with all of this and move on. It can be extremely daunting at times but remember you always have people on here who will help answer any queries and worries.Best of luckKiki

suzyT · 29 Jul 2002

Hi Gemini - sorry to hear of the problems you are having. One other thing you could look into is PGD screening. My dh has azoospermia also and our consultant felt that this was causing problems with our embroys. PGD screening basically is for: those over 35 those with repeated failures those with a history of miscarriage As you produce alot of eggs, then you would be an ideal candidate for it. Basically 4 days after ec a cell is taken from each embroy and sent to Valencia for chromozome testing. (A % of every womans eggs can have chromzome probs). Despite large numbers of eggs, across 3 cycles, where we tested around 30 embroys, only 3 came back chromozomally normal (as I say, our consultant thought this low figure was due to azoospermia). I am happy to say though that I am now pregnant on our 9th icsi attempt, having done the pgd screening on the last few attempts. Lots of luck Suzie

Gemini73 · 14 Jan 2004

Thank you very much za, Lincs Sarah , Kiki and suzyT. All you girls have given me lot of hope. This forum is full of such supportive people. I am really very greatful to all of you.I am in US. I think this forum is mostly for for people in UK. But I never found any good froum of people in USA. I hope you girls wont mind having me here... Do you?Reading you girls discussing about Dr. on particular clinics and stuff I always wish I could discuss my Dr./ clicnic with anyone on any such forum. As I said my doctor says he does not see any reason why it has not worked for me. When we asked for PGD screening , he said you can try that but I can not say if that will help in your case... He was not positive about Chicago test as well. But as you girls are supporting me I think I need to explore the option of these two things. I am not sure if I should try one at a time or should I go for both together on my next attempt.za, my mother too had irregular periods all her life. I have been having irregular periods since I started having bleeding. So I guess this is carried from my mom. We are 3 siblings all born before she eveen turned 30. For each of my cycle I had to go on birth control pill in order to be able to time the treatment. This is another thing that disturbs me as, I am on birth control pill, when I am trying to get pregnant!DH always think about fixing the problem. But our IVF Dr. says it is not possible. Moreover since he has had 2 PESA to get the sperm.Thanks Kiki for the good link. Sarah, details that you have provided are amazing and too encouraging.Suzi your story is too encouraging. I wish you all the luck for healthy pregnanacy. Knowing people who have gone through multiple failures and then gone for success has given me confidence. NO I am NOT going to GIVE UP!Thanks once again for your valuable words.Gemini

Gemini73 · 14 Jan 2004

za, I do not have PCOS. My weight is 120lb and height is 5.5 feet. But they do ask me to take Glucophage during my treatment. I just realised that you may be asking about this. Thanks

za · 14 Oct 2003

of course i don't think anyone minds you talking on this forum. i would suggest you have a look at other doctors, ie dr beer, but some people have difficulty understanding him. Dr G Sher is a good person to talk to. i don't have his number but i am sure he is on the net. he has clinics in chicago, california , las vegas and in april will have one in new york. he does free phone consultations. i am not sure what pesa is, but dr sher suggested my husband go on high antioxidants and have an ultrasound of "the area". these were all new to us as all doctors said there was nothing we could do. i am not sure what glucophage is. ? good luck

Gemini73 · 14 Jan 2004

za, What you are saying is really sounding inspiring. Glucophage is a big tablet, generally I think it is given for people with PCOS. PESA :Percutaneous Epididymal Sperm AspirationI visited other site that Kiki suggested. It is a good site having forums for people from each state in the US.Thanks once again.

za · 14 Oct 2003

hmmmm well thats interesting. ihave been put on a diet (which i am not stricly adhering to, its very difficult). i think the zita clinic thinks i am polycystic, so they have put me on a diet of no dairy (no milk no yoogurt), no sugar, no potatoes . instead i have to have rice milk or oat milk and concentrate on eating llots of nuts and fish (high in omega 3). i also take very high does of omega 3 and i have noticed such a change in my periods ( no more clots). marilyn glenville has a website and a book as well. a lot of people on this site follow her regime. my dh has a low sperm count, he was told to go on pycogenol, l carnitine, l arginine, omega 3 vit C and vit e ( as well as zinc selenium etc). all things in very high doses. not sure if this is applicable to your dh...... all the best