CARE Fertility Bulletin Board

Melski · 07 Jan 2011

Yellow, I was gutted to read this and surprised to hear the statistics that Sisterdoc quoted. I really hope that your remaining embie has developed overnight and that there is hope for it today.

I understand why you wouldn't want to invest any more time, emotion and money into another attempt (if this outcome isn't as we hope), but do you mind me asking what indicates that your eggs may be the problem with the embryos? Is there not a possibility that embryo abnormalities can also be caused by sperm?

I am curious as this is likely to be our next step, but I don't understand what information they get from the embryos that indicates the eggs are the problem.

Good luck today hun x

Monkey99 · 22 Jul 2011

Yellow, how did you get on today ? I'm thinking it's not good news as we haven't heard from you.

Big hugs xxxxx

Yellow38 · 03 Apr 2011

Hello ladies,

Have been out and about today hence not had chance to update.

Well I had a very sleepless night and during the early hours I did come to two conclusions...firstly that I don't think we will cycle again with my OE. Given the cost with drugs for aCGH is around Â£8k I just don't feel I can justify the money on such a long shot. Plus more than anything it's the time. I can't chase rainbows and given the likelihood of success with OE is going to be so much poorer then I need to try and get my head around the donor option and give that a good go (thinking poss 3 cycles right now, and then we really will be too old I think - Des O'Connor territory - well maybe not that bad, but you get the point!)

The second conclusion was that it was highly unlikely that I would go for the transfer today...I felt sure the embie would have arrested and that was the call I was expecting to receive. However, when they did call, they confirmed it had in fact now reached the compacting morula stage, they also said that it "looked quite nice" which just sent us in to a complete spin on what to do. I live an hour and 15 from the clinic and so to get there in time we had to be out in about 15 mins (I hadn't even showered!)

I could have left it until the Friday to see if it made blast, but if it did I would just be faced with the same dilema tomorrow (and tomorrow was not good for DH to take off work - not a good excuse I know, but it is a reality). I could also have had it re-biopsied if it had made blast, but if that had of happened it would then have had to be frozen and survive the thaw if it was normal - so even though the chances are very slim for this little embie, I did go ahead with transfer. Although I had sedation (I have problems with transfers because of funny shaped uterus), me and DH went in to town afterwards as it has been a nice day and had a stroll round and had a meal, hence why it's took till this time to update.

Now, I am under NO illusions here. I really feel sure that this will amount to nothing - the Embryologist even said that given the results of the others it was more likely that this embie was also abnormal, but I feel that I had to go through with it even though the chances were slim as I will always wonder what if? The Cons was slightly more positive, she said that in a sample of this size at my age they wouldn't expect more than 1/2 to be normal and maybe this was the normal one from this batch, but to be honest I really feel that this would be too miraculous to be really possible. After all, why else in 6 years of ttc have I failed (except once) to become naturally pg (and as we know that ended in m/c). I don't know if all my eggs can really have been truly that bad, after all I was only 34 when we started, but over the susbequent 3/4 years we had some dreadful things happen to us which meant that perhaps we weren't ttc as hard as we should have been in the earlier days (DH and I both had separate out of the blue health issues and we also lost DH's dad under stressful circumstances).

Interestingly though I have to say I have no regrets about CGH - some of the other abnorms are continuing to develop apparantly and they defo would have picked two of these that had got to blast even though they are now known to have been abnormal - so whatever happens, it was completely the right decision to do this, no matter how devastating it has been. I do have a worry that if this embie was to survive long enough to create a BFP, with such a high chance of it being abnormal it would be an even more worrying time than normal...but we will have to cross that bridge if it comes to it.

In the meantime I intend to call Care tomorrow and try and get them to book me a provisional review appt with Ken Dowell (like him a lot though haven't seen him yet at Notts). I also intend to ring the egg donation coordinator at Northampton and chat to her about next steps and how to get on the list (latest post suggests that DE is only 3 month wait there, (though will believe that when I see it)). I know this might seem premature, but I honestly can't see the point in waiting and wasting another two weeks when I feel the chances of another outcome are probably less than 5%.

I have lots of concerns about DE (and I'm sure will be turning to the donor boards for advice and support), and if I'm honest I'm surprised I am now considering it as openly as I am, but if given the choice between it being DE or DS, then I would hands down every time have said DE (probably too complicated to explain why here).

Melski - to your question. All the discussions that have been had with Ken Dowell and the Embryologists all indicate that the most likely cause will be the eggs and my age. My DH's sperm has always come back in the good ranges and has never posed any cause for concern. I have previously asked Ken Dowell about DNA fragmentation, but he honestly didn't see the point. The only real treatment for this is the combination of male vitamins / Menevit (which comes from Oz), and given we decided to already put him on that working on the basis that if there were any problems, this would hopefully have helped, but in all reality, the chances are that there is nothing wrong anyway.

I guess I will now have about a week to wait - official OTD is not till something ridiculous like 18th July, but I know from prev experience it will not get that far so I reckon about 9 days from now we will have at least part of our answer.

Thanks again ladies for looking in on me.
Yellow x

VonnieS · 03 May 2012

Yellow, I'm so pleased to hear you got a transfer and that they said it looked quite nice. I know it's hard to get your hopes up again after so much heartache but good luck for your little embie. I hope this is the one for you. xx

Monkey99 · 22 Jul 2011

Yellow as I said on the other thread I have everything crossed for you xxxxx

Yellow38 · 03 Apr 2011

Thanks, though I have no genuine hope really. I have booked my review with Ken Dowell and have also got appt's with the ED Coordinator & Counselling people, so at least I feel like I am doing something positive.

Monkey99 · 22 Jul 2011

Wow you don't hang around Wink

. Surprised they let you book a review before you know your result ?

You aren't gonna need it PMA x

Yellow38 · 03 Apr 2011

He, he, I know, I am one of those terribly impatient planning types and want everything yesterday (hence why this process is such a nightmare!!) I didn't actually tell the secretary where I was in the cycle with the Ken Dowell appt, and she never asked. I'm glad I booked though, cos I reckon I would easily have been looking at mid Sept with holidays and such if I had left it a couple of weeks, as it is, I have a mid Aug appt. I did tell the DE lady the truth and she didn't seem concerned and its worked out really well as the appt is the week after my other appt!! Perfect (well I say perfect, obviously it's all rather a long way from perfect, but you catch the point!)

Monkey99 · 22 Jul 2011

You are probably right to get everything booked. I am the same, can't wait for anything lol Wink

How are you feeling ? You can't help but have some hope can you, that's the scary thing.

I don't know what my next move will be, when I'm not mid IVF cycle I am sad but accept no children, and think of the things we can do to make our lives great in other ways but when I'm mid IVF cycle my emotions are so strong and I feel utterly desperate. I think I need to wait until this cycle is over and my hormones have calmed down and assess then Wink

Yellow38 · 03 Apr 2011

Hi Monkey - hope you are feeling ok today and the sun is shining in Monkey land today (maybe just a little bit?)

I know how you feel, when you are cycling, everything tends to revolve around it, there is so much planning involved - I don't know about you, but sorting out appts during work is a challenge and then we tend to try and avoid seeing too many people socially during the time so I don't have to explain too much on the not drinking front etc, so the planning is massive - it's no wonder it dominates your life. I guess this is what makes the disappointment so great as well, because so much has gone in to it.

Like you, we have lots of things we can be doing in our lives and are lucky in so many other ways - I'm off in to town in a bit to get some holiday brochures ready for our post tx holiday, but in a way, the fact that we have such a good potential environment to bring a child in to and are such a happy couple in our relationship makes it worse on one level. If we argued, or the relationship was rocky, or we were really hard up, I could at least think, well maybe it's a blessing.

I honestly don't hold out any hope on this cycle - if I harboured a 1% chance of success then that might be about it, but genuinely I am doing my hardest not to think about that 1% and to focus on the 99% probability. I've done my crying over this cycle the day I found out the CGH results, I don't want to build myself up needlesly to just end up in tears again later this week.

Right - now about that holiday!!?? Wink

nicknacknoo · 04 May 2009

Hi Yellow -

I was sorry to read about the outcome of your cycle, it must have been a very hard week for you. BIG HUGS x It does only take one & there's every chance your little embie is the perfect one. You sound like you have been very proactive & decisive about your future plans, good on you. Here's hoping this little one stays put & proves you wrong x

Thinking of you x

Nicky xx

Monkey99 · 22 Jul 2011

Hi yellow,

It's not too difficult for me with work because I'm in sales so I'm always out and about so nobody notices. My boss does know though as they would notice on ec if I went AWOL for 6 hours or so. I am pretty mad today though as I said to my boss I will be off tomorrow as I'm in hospital and he said how long, so I said I have to be there for 10.30am, am in theatre at 11.45am and should be out at about 3ish so he said ok do you want to book a days holiday ??!! Charming ah !!!!

We also planned to go away as soon as this cycle had finished but my oh is working on a project with deadlines and now we can't, so it will be September earliest, I almost burst into tears yesterday when he told me !! Hormones eh.

You thinking of going anywhere nice ?

I think you are right to prepare for the worst, its self preservation.

I am thinking of doing a few months of clomid ( I have done it previously but not monitered and not with hcg shot) so am trying to find out if Care offer that service...... That way I am not quite giving up but getting of the financial and emotional roller coaster of IVF Wink

Yellow38 · 03 Apr 2011

Cheeky boss!

Our hols won't be till the Aug bank holiday either, but at least if you have something pencilled in it's good to look forward to it, even if it's Sept. We are looking at Tuscany for week - I love Italy and I haven't been to that part before, so busy occupying myself with investigating that. I'm 40 in Dec as well so have been planning a trip away for that too, as I can't stand the thought of being here and not being pg and being 40. I have made one decision though and I have to say it feels like a massive relief - I have taken my house off the market and are now planning to stay which is just as well given the cost of all this tx and the subsequent holidays that are required!!

Not sure about your clomid q. If you don't ov that regulalry then clomid might help - I read before that it doesn't do anything statistically more than just trying naturally for unexplained (this was after I spent a year on it!), BUT, if you are having ov problems then it could be at least a proactive step. Funnily enough, the time I got pg naturally was when I asked Care to do a natural monitoring cycle (no drugs) - I couldn't believe it really as we didn't really do anything different because of it (if you know what I mean), but there you have it, first and only natural pg in 6 years. Perhaps those scanning probes are more advanced that we think??!! Wink

Hello to Vonnie, Nicky and Melski (and anyone else looking out for me).

Yellow xx

Noggin · 11 Sep 2009

Hi Yellow,

We were away last week and trying to get signal to post was a nightmare!

Glad to see you have a plan of action (hopefully you'll have no need to see Ken again) and snap for being 40 in december!

Love Noggin xx

Yellow38 · 03 Apr 2011

Thanks Noggin - hope you had a good week and managed to be somewhere where it wasn't a complete washout!!

Strange how I always felt positive about advancing age (a sign of wisdom and all that), until this IF nightmare of course and now it's just a reminder of my disappearing youth!!

Anyway -- I hope you have some nice plans for your 40th too - we have to get through it somehow!

Monkey99 · 22 Jul 2011

Hi yellow,

Do you know I have been to lots of places but have never been to Italy, its just one of those places that doesnt really appeal to me..... maybe I should re think that Smile

I completely hear you re 40, I dread every birthday now, but if we had a child I couldnt give a monkeys as I will have everthing I could want, each year that goes by just makes me think the dream is slipping away.

My 'unexplained' is questionable, in my initial tests two years ago with the GP the 21 day blood test showed I hadnt ovulated naturally, so i was refered to a specialist, he did the dye test and all ok. So prescribed me clomid, on each month I had the 21 day blood test and ovulated each month on clomid and he said if I dont get pg during the 6 months it becomes 'unexplained' but it can take normal couples longer than 6 months cant it ??? I have had two blood tests since (whilst not on clomid0 and one of the two months I ovulated and one I didnt.... So although I suspect there is something else wrong, I dont ovulate regularly either so am thinking maybe clomid is worth another go.... I just dont think I can talk my other half into another IVF at this moment and so clomid is better than nothing eh ? I have read that even with clomid the LH surge is usually only enough to release one egg (even if you have a couple of follies growing) but if you have timed hcg shot your body would release both giving you a better chance.... But I dont think my NHS cons does that kind of monitered cycle, so im thinking of asking care.

How are you feeling ?

I got the call first thing this morning, all 3 eggs were mature and two have fertilised, will get an update tomorrow and if all ok et will be Friday.

Yellow38 · 03 Apr 2011

Well should you need clomid Monkey, what you have said makes a lot of sense to me and least you feel like you are doing something practical towards it if further IVF is not on the agenda at the mo.

Am feeling ok I guess, I am resigned to BFN as you know, and the last two nights I have had sweats and I'm sure a bit of cramping in the night - both signs AF on way, I am at exactly the point I was at today when I noticed my first tiny (and I mean it was minute), bit of AF so needless to say I am braced everytime I go the loo! I suspect that the next couple of days will confirm the outcome which will be good as it's my wedding anniversary Sat and I'm planning on some alcohol!! On the positive, the egg donation literature arrived from Care today, so that'll give me something to absorb myself in.

And you should so go to Italy!! Honestly I can't imagine anyone not loving the place - so friendly, great food and the best wine!!

Monkey99 · 22 Jul 2011

Hi yellow, how are you feeling ? I can't remember when your otd is, I know you said you felt like af was on her way but I really don't think you can tell, lots of women get signs of af and get a BFP !! The only way of knowing is if af really shows her ugly face !

Hang on in there xx

And yes I should, don't know why I have never fancied it, I love Italian food and of course wine lol Wink

Yellow38 · 03 Apr 2011

Well there is defo signs of bleeding now, so totally all over for me. As I have said before, not really a surprise and I'm relieved really that I have my outcome so I can get on with enjoying my weekend and my wedding anniversary.

Thanks everyone for all the support you have given me on this thread.

Yellow xx

Monkey99 · 22 Jul 2011

Aw yellow I am so bummed to read that.

It will happen in the future. Try to enjoy your anniversary and have a good few drinks xxxxx

VonnieS · 03 May 2012

Am sorry to see that too Yellow. xxx

L_ouise · 08 Jun 2011

Hiya Yellow, I was interested to see how you'd got on from Monkeys thread and I'm really sorry to see that it didn't work out for you Sad

And kudos for getting your review sorted way in advance, that my kind of thinking Wink

I'm glad that you have something to look forward to this coming week, I hope you have a fabulous time! xx

Melski · 07 Jan 2011

Hi Yellow, sorry I missed your thread on Friday and sorry to read that AF turned up, even though I know you were expecting it. Presume it did turn into full flow and wasn't a lovely surprise implantation bleed? Anyway, hope you had a fab anniversary and look forward to hearing how you get on in Tuscany in August x

joeybear · 13 Sep 2011

Hi Yellow, sorry it didn't work this time - i had been thinking about you x

We should get the results from our array this week and i'm dreading it. I keep thinking shall i ring and chase it up and then i stop myself and think when they get the results they will ring me straight away (i hope!!)

I hope you had a nice anniversary and had a good drink Smile

Yellow38 · 03 Apr 2011

Hi everyone,

thanks for your good wishes - had a lovely day and night Saturday...and really enjoyed having a good few drinks!!

I must admit I keep wondering what to do next about the whole donor situ - one minute I think the sample I had was probably not big enough to determine truly that all my eggs are duff, but at the same time I do feel deep down that another go with my own eggs is probably not going to amount to success and I genuinely feel we are running out of time and will with all this.

This is probably going to sound crazy, but I have said before that I always thought we would have problems and I have not been able to envisage one child, BUT I have also on some level thought we could end up with twins one day...Seeing the situ with my own eggs makes me think I will never get two that way and so is this the route I am destined to take and maybe that will end up the outcome?? Sounds ridiculous now I have written it, and I am not a voodoo type, but there you go, that is sort of what I wondering. I am really trying to come to terms with things - I have said a few times to DH now that I don't think I will ever be a biological mother...

Anyway, I know Ken Dowell will give us his views, and so it will be interesting to see what he says when I see him in August.

Joey - very best of luck with your results this week...I really hope you have some luck, there is every chance you will as I think you would have to be very unlucky to also have the sort of outcome we have had, so keep positive if you can - remember as well that whatever the result, it will be the same whether you chase it up or worry about it! Keep us posted.

Yellow x